The Brands That Win Aren’t Afraid to Experiment

Alex: Leaving your mind open to to what your positioning is. And having a fixed and flexible brand is important to me where, you know, I think so many companies get so locked in on their fixed part of their brand guidelines that there’s no flexibility to pivot and adjust. My companies maybe have moved too fast sometimes, you know.

Dan: Hey, Alex, you ready to get a sweet?

Alex: Let’s do it.

Dan: Let’s go.

Nicole: Hi, it’s producer Nicole Denson. Today we’re talking with fractional chief marketing officer Alex McArthur. Alex has spent his career building and scaling some of Dizzy’s most recognizable brands, serving as CMO at Purple, Kizik and Tovala. He’s driven billions in direct to consumer sales, pushed products into thousands of retail doors, and has a real knack for assembling winning marketing teams.

Nicole: He also sits on the Board of Pestie and previously Signs.com. He’s a proud BYU alum based in Lehi, Utah. Alex is married with three kids and a goldendoodle. He loves to hike and play guitar, so we’ve got plenty to dive into today. Back to the show.

Dan: Time to F’kosh it. Thanks for doing this with us.

Alex: Yeah, yeah. Dude. I’ve been around Big Leap since it started, I think.

Dan: Because you knew Bryan from pre-dating Big Leap days, right?

Alex: Yeah, yeah, I think I don’t know what stories he wants me or not to share. No, he’s—Bryan is the best. Loved knowing him for years. I think he was working at target at the time, and I was obsessed with digital marketing, and he joined me at a company, and we both started thinking more about digital marketing. And then we helped start another company.

Alex: And, you know, for fun.

Dan: You know, and listening. Alex is referring to Bryan Phelps, who’s the founder of Big Leap and Alex, I know Bryan credits a lot of his kind of just beginnings and genesis of digital marketing to you. So hats off to you, sir.

Alex: Well, he was always the one that was smart and did things. I just talked about ideas and he accomplished them. So that’s what makes Big Leap so good.

Dan: Well, as we kick off on our journey today, I got some questions for you. And, Hey, and just for fun, you. You’re welcome to ask me anything you want as well. But we’ll start easy, and then we’ll get more and more, a little more crazy as we go. Cool?

Alex: Yep.

Dan: All right. Question number one. Where’d you grow up?

Alex: So, born in North Carolina. Most of my family’s from North Carolina. Carolina. But we moved a lot. My dad was a nuclear physicist, so we moved to where the different nuclear plants were. Different companies were behind the nuclear industry. So, Maryland, Tennessee, California. Utah. And before I was born, they moved to a bunch of other places Indiana, Texas.

Alex: So my older brother and sister lived a lot of other spots, too. But, yeah, kind of view myself as a North Carolina boy. But I spent 6 or 7 years in Walnut Creek outside of San Francisco, ended up here in Utah. So I met you and Bryan and so many other good marketers here.

Dan: Do you have a favorite out of all those places? Sounds like North Carolina, potentially.

Alex: Yeah, I’d love to retire on the coast in North Carolina one day, but I’ll always have a home here. But I like if I could split my time between the North Carolina coast and and Utah, I’d be pretty happy.

Dan: So as you world traveled, or at least United States traveled in your youth, you ended up in Utah for schooling, right?

Alex: Yeah. Always wanted to go to BYU. Got in. Had no idea what I wanted to do. Served an LDS mission in the Czech Republic. Came back and, you know, to be honest, I thought at the time you had to study, you know, this was in the late 90s that the only way to move forward was, like tech.

Alex: So I tried to do computer science. So if either I wasn’t smart enough or it just wasn’t for me because I like people and I couldn’t sit behind a screen for too much time. But yeah, I went to BYU. What about you? I don’t even know where you at school.

Dan: So Connecticut grew up, and then yeah BYU as well. And my dad was a pediatric dentist for, I don’t know, 40 something years. And my vision was to take over the the family practice, take over my dad’s practice, and did all the science classes and pre-dental classes at BYU and similar path to you as I was a few years into that, you know what this ain’t the path for me.

Dan: I like people too much. I like talking too much. And as I’m talking with people and my hands are in their mouths and they can’t really talk back to me, I don’t know. That’s the perfect form of communication.

Alex: Well you can keep all the dialog to yourself I mean like it’s—you can get more words in that way if you like to talk.

Dan: And, can even make their voices for them and imagine what they’re saying back to me.

Alex: That’s funny.

Dan: So I like to, ask this question to my kids and curious what you’ll say. Okay, we’re driving to Saint George. We’re getting away from the Utah County cold for a little bit. And as we drive, we’re gonna stop in Fillmore because everyone stops in Fillmore on the drive down to stop at that one Maverick, apparently, that’s always busy.

Dan: You get a stop at the Maverick, you get to choose one drink and one snack. What’re you getting?

Alex: Oh, man. That’s tough. Just so you know, we stop at Costa Vida every time on the way down. So you’re across the street? Yeah, across the street. There you go. So if I can go to if I go to a gas station, which I never as a kid, I always got snacks. I almost never do now.

Alex: But on the Saint George trip, it’s long enough. I normally get, like, a life water type of thing or a vitamin Water. Like one of those types—I’m not a big soda drinker. Okay. And then I’ll get, like, the salt and pepper, pistachios and if I’m really cheating, I’ll get some some Twizzlers or something. I’ve always loved those.

Dan: The pull ‘n peels? Or we’re talking straight up original?

Alex: Either way, it’s all good. Okay? It’s all good to me. Anything with some of that good red dye in it? Yeah.

Dan: I like it, I respect it.

Alex: What about you?

Dan: What would you get? I’m a big fan of currently. It’d be a bag of some form of beef jerky. Yeah, because I can trick myself in saying it’s protein.

Alex: A little bit of protein with some brown sugar in it.

Dan: A little bit. A lot of brown sugar.

Alex: So you can tell ingredients are on my mind a lot lately.

Dan: Well, tell me about that. I know right now you, you spent a career as different forms of marketing, different forms of, being a CMO at a handful of different companies. In the current format of Alex McArthur is fractional CMO life. Tell me a little bit about some of the brands that you’re working with.

Alex: Yeah. So, if you’re watching this and you don’t know me, which is very likely, former CMO of purple, the mattress company from concept to public and then a shoe company that Nike invested in, and licenses the tech firm called Kizik. A lot of people have seen the hands free Skechers shoes. That’s a pretty close, you know, they, copy to what we were doing.

Dan: Are they licensing that technology or just taking it?

Alex: They are not.

Dan: Okay. But Nike has that technology that they license from Kizik?

Alex: Yeah. And and they just announced a New Balance relationship as well. So yeah, that’s my background is. And then previously to that, SEO.com, I was an executive there, and a company called Orange Soda, which is where Bryan and I spent a lot of years doing digital marketing together, your founder. So

Dan: Shout out to Kizik as I’m rocking a pair right now.

Alex: Yeah. You’re always wearing them.

Dan: You’re joking with me. That’s the only pair of shoes I own. And it’s because every time they’re white slip ons, every time they get dirty, I end up buying a new pair. I need maybe some creativity, but I love them. And then I think also, you got me my first purple mattress when you were down with purple.

Alex: I think so, yeah. So now I’m more in a fractional role and, you know, back to the ingredients thing. There’s, there’s a company doing really well here in Utah called Just Ingredients, which is one of my fractional projects. My wife’s a mega fan. She’s had a couple health issues, and when she eats really clean, she feels a lot better.

Alex: And that company is one that she’s loved. So she’s pretty excited I’m helping them out. You know, hence the the red 40 jokes and and the brown sugar jokes.

Dan: I’m not super familiar with, but please teach me a little bit. And to the audience listening, that company was started by who?

Alex: Karalynne Call, the founder. She, you know, she does a great job on social media of educating people on what’s in their food. And especially labels. Labels on food are so deceptive. There’s ways of making things sound healthy when they’re not like, you know, there’s ways of labeling things like natural ingredients that can mean a lot of things.

Alex: You know, companies are unfortunately super deceptive about their ingredients. And, one reason I’ve really enjoyed getting to know, Karalynne is, you know, how passionate she is about making sure things come from a good source. So, you know, we’ve all seen the health movement that’s been happening in the last decade, but I haven’t seen many people like, not sacrifice for what they’re trying to put into their their food, like most companies realize, like, oh, that’s super expensive.

Alex: We can’t do that. And then they cut corners. So you’ll see all kinds of weird gums, anthem gums and all kinds of things and even things that are labeled as healthy. And,

Dan: Yeah, if you haven’t tried, like a shout out to just ingredients, I love their protein shakes.

Alex: So good. Mint chocolate. I rotate between mint chocolate and the creamy peanut butter. So good.

Dan: The mint chocolate is my go to every morning. And I my wife laughs at me because at home I’ve got my little cabinet. It’s just my dedicated protein cabinet.

Alex: Protein cabinet.

Dan: And it’s about 3 or 4 different kinds of protein in any given time. So I can rotate and have a different one every morning and then collegen and then it’s all the other random creatine and mix things that I do to keep this body functioning at an adequate level of pickleball success. There you go. Good stuff. What has surprised you most about your time with just ingredients?

Alex: How fast they move. They’re working hard, like, they. And it’s not, like, money driven. It’s totally like they want to help people, and it’s, we hear those kind of stories and you don’t always believe them. But, like, in this situation, like watching what drives them and, like, understanding the, you know, the needs that a lot of their customers have.

Alex: And it’s been cool to watch. So.

Dan: I’ve got a few friends over there. Sierra. Oh, yeah. Tyler.

Alex: Former big leap people.

Dan: Former big leapers. I know how much they care about what they do. And yeah, because they believe in that company. So shout out to both of you as well. That food trend. Let’s keep it going for a second. You’re also currently working with another group in the food space. Yeah. About that.

Alex: Yeah. People are, you know, jumping on the the meal delivery, category. More and more people are, you know, finding themselves super busy. And, a lot of people have heard of HelloFresh or factor back in the day, Blue or Blue Apron. You know, my favorite one that I found is, is called Tovala. They have this smart oven that helps you balance the the kind of extremes of the meal delivery space where there’s really easy, low quality microwave meals.

Alex: And I would label that as a factor. And then on the other side, you have, you know, meal kits like a Blue Apron or HelloFresh, where it takes a little more time.

Dan: I’ve done those, and they’re fun when you have 45 minutes to actually put the meal together if you want that time. But if you don’t want to take 45 minutes to actually put the meal together.

Alex: Yeah, just have all kind of and then wait for the you have to wait for it to be cooked to. And there’s prep and mess. Tovala has literally one minute of preparation. You already have this smart oven set up that can replace your toaster. It’s not replacing a big oven in your kitchen. Right. But one minute of prep, you open things up, put it together.

Alex: You put the tins in the oven and it’s smart, and it knows what to do. For each meal, you scan a QR code, to get it going. And it knows, like, if it needs a minute of steaming or if it, you know, a good steak at a restaurant has been through multiple processes, right?

Alex: When people cook things in the oven at home, it goes through one step. So like this food tastes great. Like you can get filet mignon, you can get high end meals. You can get classics that you’re used to, like comfort foods that we all know and love. And so the only bad thing about it is, my son Gavin that works with you guys steals every meal now.

Alex: Now, all of a sudden, I was enjoying it for this last year. He’s been home for a couple of months, and now I get maybe one a week. I used to get one every day for lunch.

Dan: I saw, a few months ago. I might have been even back to holiday times at Christmas time. I swear they had some kind of special going where as you signed up. I think they even included the the oven, what they call it the oven for free. I don’t know, that’s a normal thing that they do or if you purchase that.

Dan: But I thought that was interesting.

Alex: Yeah. A few times a year. I mean, in the end it’s a food company, right? And people get stuck on the fact that there’s something different than the other ones where you just buy it. You get, you know, plastic containers, you know, and all that stuff. But we have this oven that has all the difference in the world, like it makes.

Alex: It makes the food like a great meal instead of, microwaved, you know, low quality experience without the time that it takes to prepare a good quality meal.

Dan: Have you at different times in your career? And I’m asking you to be vulnerable here, and you don’t have to name names, but have you worked for groups at some point where you realized, I don’t actually believe in this, I’m out of here.

Alex: Yeah. I mean, none of the ones that I’ve mentioned, of course. Right. I mean, there’s been a company or two where, you know, trying to provide for my family, haven’t found a job that’s like, the perfect thing or haven’t helped start something. And, and I get recruited by a recruiter and pulled in. So there’s been 1 or 2 times where I’ve spent a little time there, and I thought, oh, this product could be interesting.

Alex: And then you get in and you realize there’s not the same passion. You know, all the ones I mentioned, from purple to kizik to just ingredients to like, those people are trying to like, solve a real problem. It’s not just trying to make a buck, and that’s for sure. That’s a benefit. You know, if you make a good product, your business will grow.

Alex: Yeah. But what I have been a part of, yeah.

Dan: And that’s I can tell just the way you’re talking about tovala or the way you talk about just ingredients, the way I over the years we talked about purple and, and kizik and you obviously believe in what they’re doing. It’s not just a get rich scheme.

Alex: Oh, yeah. I mean, the funnest part of Kizik for example, was like, it felt like every week we would learn a new use case, like when we started it, Mike Pratt was the inventor. So when, you know, and he came up with the concept, he had some ideas of how people could use shoes that you don’t need to bend over and tie to feel snug and fit like a sneaker.

Alex: But, you know, we weren’t thinking of, a large base of autistic customers that couldn’t tie their shoes. Parents loving kiziks for their kids. You know, we thought about seniors needing it, but, the majority of customers are, you know, younger, middle aged people that are just you know, that, like their classic Nike’s and all these things, they want good looking shoes that are easy to put on.

Alex: But like the finding those use cases, it was just so fun. I mean, nurses during the Covid stretch, they didn’t want to touch their shoes, at the beginning of kind of the fear of Covid, right? When it was especially intense and, that was a campaign that actually got us a lot of attention. Interesting. Kind of really kicked off the company in a weird way, two years into the business.

Dan: And it was not an insight that anyone had going into.

Alex: No, we found it

Dan: A learning that happened

Alex: We walked into it. Right. Like.

Dan: Yeah, you can measure five times and cut once and then still realize that there’s things that still find out. Right.

Alex: And then that’s why, like leaving your mind open to to what your positioning is. And having a fixed and flexible brand is important to me where, you know, I think so many companies get so locked in on their fixed part of their, their, you know, brand guidelines that there’s no flexibility to pivot and adjust and, well.

Dan: Well let’s take this message

Alex: My companies maybe have moved to fast enough.

Dan: We’ll take that messaging. And so for any Alex, you’re well known here in Utah for sure for kind of the marketing work that you’ve done, the companies you’ve been a part of, I’ve been at conferences with you. You walk around and you can’t go more than five steps without someone coming over to say hi. All right. So you’re not a, you’re not a narcissistic dude who likes to talk about yourself a lot, but you’re well known in Utah specifically for marketing.

Dan: If there are any young marketers listening to this, people that are kind of getting into the space or are still kind of have their ears wet and they’re just learning. You just mentioned something I think is a good learning for any marketer to to learn is don’t be so rigid. Be open to learning. Be open to having your customers give you feedback that allows you to pivot a product or pivot an offering.

Dan: What’s another thought that you’ve had that you’d be willing to share? That maybe would be something interesting or insightful for a young marketer to, to put in print off and but next to their computer and have as a thought over the next week or two.

Alex: Yeah. I mean, continuing along with that kind of line of thinking that we were just talking about with fixed and flexible like, number one, you make a product for a customer, right? We all know that. And you got to put your customer first. But I think people are get so afraid of their customer. It’s so common to see this.

Alex: And like all my consulting over the years or getting to know other brands, either the ownership or the marketing team is so afraid of their customer that they never experiment. And I think your customer, I think there’s so many, you know, historical cases to prove this, but people are a lot more, forgiving than you think.

Alex: You know, I know in this world you hear a little bit of, you know, cancel culture or different things, but like, it’s shocking how forgiving customers are. And you don’t have to go that bold, even worry about being canceled. But having a point of view is just so important. And sometimes you have to experiment to find that point of view.

Alex: Pulling up off the cuff. Well, and over here on the right.

Dan: So what you just said, do me a favor. Put that into maybe a one sentence learning. Yeah. What’s the one sentence maybe take away?

Alex: I think most brands have a document, one, one sentence takeaway. It’s a little bit harder.

Dan: I’ll give you two sentences

Alex: Yeah. Brands have a document that says this is who we are, but they often can’t describe it in a really simple way. So experimenting until you find your point of view is really important. So your story beyond just, the tagline like, what’s the story that people can feel, I think is really important to find. So yeah, the point of view would be the maybe the one liner that I’d say you have to shoot for.

Alex: Okay.

Dan: Let’s go. Let’s go grab some food.

Alex: Let’s do it.

Dan: Where are we going today?

Alex: We are going to a little bakery called F’kosh. It’s got, like, sweet and savory, kind of little snack portion breads with different toppings on top. It’s really good.

Dan: What should I get there again?

Alex: It will depend on if you want sweet or savory. I would do like the orange glazed focaccia bread. It’s so good.

Dan: How did you first hear about this place?

Alex: So Lehi is a weird place where I live, right? Like, it’s, it’s at this convergence of tech and an old farming community, and there’s this little section of Main Street where there’s little new restaurants popping up and little new stores and shops and, for cash just popped up a couple months ago. And I went in like the first day, and I loved it.

Alex: Met the founder super nice. And, just a cool place. Good vibes.

Dan: I’m excited to give it a try. Okay, let’s go do it. Good spot right here. Have you ever been on this chiropractor?

Alex: Yeah, I have.

Dan: So how do you feel about making this the most random, sweet takes ever. And, get my back cracked?

Alex: You can do it. Okay. I’ll hold all your stuff. Hopefully that who’s ever editing this gets to here.

Dan: They just, the sound effects.

Dan: All right, so as we head back to the office here, talk to me about. This is the only one official question we have to ask during this podcast, which is what is your sweet take? Or what’s the one thing that’s been on your mind lately?

Alex: Yeah. I mean, one thing I’m kind of always sorry. Our snack, our F’kosh is falling around here. Let me hold it. One thing that’s been on my mind, especially lately is momentum. Because everyone wants to grow. And it’s shocking how many companies will just wait for that growth. Or they the things they do to be proactive don’t accomplish that growth.

Alex: And something I’ve noticed is to gain momentum. This is going to sound, for some reason, maybe more complicated than I mean it to. But like you have to find you have to live in the tension of whatever the topic of your business is. So think of, I mean, everybody who likes to think of Apple, right? And at the time when they came out making computers, you know, it was kind of a technical only thing or maybe perceived as a nerdy thing, or only developers could use computers.

Alex: And they came out and, you know, were, you know, trying to be different. And they approach teachers and, you know, eventually they got into music and it was more of the creative side. And now, decades later, even though they position themselves as the creator side of of computers, you still have a huge portion of developers to build on Apple now, right?

Alex: So even the market they didn’t approach, they became cool somewhere and they still captured other things. So like another area of tension might be. Let me think of what’s an app I use Duolingo. Right?

Alex: it’s like you’re a genius, you’re amazing. And it’s gotten obnoxious pretty fast. Right? But like, Duolingo actually does a little bit of subtle guilt tripping to you, which isn’t a common thing that you see in business. Right? Like, obviously there’s nagging to buy, but they’re they’re pretty—they try to be humorous about reminding you of your goal to learn a language.

Alex: And so that’s a that’s an area of tension, right? Is like what’s too much, what’s too far? What’s, perceived as kind versus perceived as uncomfortable. And you have to find like, your own sweet spot, because if you just do what other brands do, you’re never going to gain the momentum and growth that you want. So, so living in that tension is really important to find

Alex: what’s unique about your positioning—like purple, we could have been just like every other mattress company, right? But we chose to do something that no mattress company had done and use humor to break through the noise of the hundreds of mattress options. And that was a form of tension. And like, we got a lot of pressure, like, oh, you guys had a couple funny ads.

Alex: Now get serious. Okay? And and we chose not to for four years. And we grew like crazy during those four years. And then once I went public and got big, the, the, you know, the, the new teams running the company pulled back on where purple had found its own place of tension, that it was accepted. Right.

Dan: And so when you use the word tension

Alex: It’s the push and pull of like where you’re going to be, you know, where you feel comfortable as a brand and what people are telling you what permission your customer is giving you.

Dan: Just your unique point of view. Yeah, your point of view a few times too. Yeah.

Alex: It is the point of view that that you choose to live in that’s maybe different from others in the space.

Dan: Okay.

Alex: So yeah, the purple example, like, you know, after those few humor ads we had, you know, some board members or other people say, hey, you, you can’t keep doing that. Like we’re a sleep company, like our customer has given us permission. We’re the only mattress company that has billions of views. Right? And people are waiting for our next spot.

Alex: And so it’s important to look for what that next, moment of permission is with your brand and where you can go, because that white space that you create that’s different from others is, what makes you a brand rather than you’re just another, you know, just.

Dan: Competing in the market. You’re just competing over price or you’re competing over color or function or feature, but there’s nothing that really separates you from somebody else. Right?

Alex: So my point around momentum is everybody wants a new level of momentum, but they’re not willing to get uncomfortable with exploring their unique point of view or where they’re willing to live in the tension of whatever brand category they’re in. You know.

Dan: Interesting.

Alex: Like people are so wanting to not have to think about something slightly uncomfortable or slightly different from how they’ve done things, that that’s something I love to think about.

Dan: Well, you’ve met with so many executives over the last, let’s call ten years. In general, the executives that you meet with, whether it’s CEO, CMO, CFO, any of it, are they open to this conversation or are they they want the result without?

Alex: Yeah, the process.

Dan: To get there.

Alex: Yeah, I think that’s where I don’t that’s where I’m like, okay, this isn’t a good fit. They don’t really want to grow. They just want money. Right. But the ones that, again, Tony and Terry Pierce, the inventors of the gel that became purple, they were so willing to experiment and that gave us permission to try things and, and, you know, reach new heights.

Alex: Mike Pratt, the inventor of of the patenter of Kiziks like, same thing. Like he was open minded. I think too many executives tried to define everything so much that it gets defined to death because there is no point of view. You know, it’s three checklists that whenever you do something, check these three things that here’s our new piece of content.

Alex: And pushing the boundaries a little bit gives you so much more upside.

Dan: Spitting truth Alex McArthur. Your sweet take is people need to be a little bit more comfortable finding their own point of view if they’re looking to achieve the growth that they want to achieve. Is that a summary?

Alex: Yeah, you said it better than I did. I like it.

Dan: Dan GPT

Alex: You’re good at what you do

Dan: Dan GPT up here just taking notes and thinking, I love it and it makes sense. And it goes along really hand-in-hand with, you know, Coby at Big Leap. A lot of what Coby preaches and our team preaches around, if we’re just competing over price or you’re just getting over a feature.

Alex: It’s a commodity.

Dan: It’s a commodity. You have to help make your brand separate from being a commodity to being something that people want to legitimately connect with because they believe in your brand. And I think you said it before, the audience will tell you. People will tell you if you are willing to listen. Yeah. We’re not always willing to listen to them.

Alex: Yeah. I mean, think about what we just experienced. We went into that, a bakery. There’s a lot of bakeries that are like Jen’s Bakery or whatever. They’re very, you know, it’s it’s simple and safe. And for cash is a word that her family came up with. And they’re like, bring some bread, bring some.

Dan: Bring some bread.

Alex: Bring some F’kosh. And it became a joke. And that became their name, and what else do we talk about there? How I forgot her name

Dan: Her name was Mia. Mia’s background is operations.

Alex: Yeah. And I was saying how I love their process. You normally go to a place it’s so transactional. You’re in, you’re out, and she takes the time. Cuts the loaf, changes her gloves, goes through this whole process. And like, that’s part of their brand experience. Like that’s who she is. And it became part of how they work.

Dan: Alex: Like I’ve never seen a bakery operate like that. Like they grab stuff. Throw in a bag, you’re out.

Dan: Grab donuts, throw them in, ring you up.

Alex: Yeah. But you haven’t even got to taste it.

Dan: Yeah I’m excited, I’m excited. I’m not sure if the hot honey pepperoni is going to be the favorite, or if it’s going to end up being mango with coconut.

Alex: It’s hard to not like. Do we get cinnamon there? No, I don’t think we did that.

Dan: We got the banana.

Alex: Banana. That’ll be good.

Dan: Banana dulce or something like that. Yeah well excited to try this. Gosh, thank you for sharing your sweet take with us. I think it’ll be well received. I’m excited to hear the comments and feedback that people have as they get to internalize and think through this.

Alex: Yeah. Thanks for having me.

Dan: So a bad habit of mine is, ordering way too much food, and I think I just did that. We have four of these, but I’m not sorry. What was this flavor?

Alex: So this is banana, dulce de leche. And we have not tried that yet, which I’m excited to try this one.

Dan: Right.

Alex: And I just ate this one is. What was this? Yeah. This is the ricotta. It’s good. The sweet ones are so good.

Dan: I’m not a sweet person, and my wife knows I’d much rather have an extra piece of steak than have any kind of dessert. This is coconut. Mango? This is fantastic.

Alex: We just met the founder. She was so cool.

Dan: Shout out Mia.

Alex: Yeah, Mia is the best.

Dan: Enjoy F’kosh. It’s good

Nicole: Thanks for coming along for the ride. If you enjoy Sweet Takes, be sure to subscribe and leave us a review. Join us next time! There’s more sweetness ahead.